All about my Dadant deeps

Why do an extra long frame, instead of 2 medium frames?

Charles Dadant worked with the Dadant deep hive for many years, chronicled in his book "Dadant System of Beekeeping", located here, or here , or as an ebook. At the time he wrote, people were using a single Langstroth deep as the brood chamber; that's the comparison he disses repeatedly in the book. He recounts that the Dadant deep, which he developed by tweaking the brood chamber size in almost all dimensions, is better for the bees and the bottom line. The queen has more interrupted space to lay, enough space to lay up the box really well, and because the beekeeper can add honey supers at will, the space in the hive can be optimized to the needs of the bees.

Building the Dadant Deep

We'll start at the top...it's all stock parts!

Lid and inner cover: You can use a stock lid. We built ours because 1) I had to work with bars my first year, and they are too long for a stock lid; 2) our lid is bigger, heavier, and has more insulation year-round, and 3) it is about $10 cheaper. And I modified the inner covers to have 4 holes that fit the lid of an inverted mason jar, when I need to feed.

Hive bodies: The brood chamber is 2 mediums glued together, so that the bottom medium is upside down. I had to add handles because the bottom handle is upside down.... The 2 assembled shallow supers do double duty as feeder boxes around mason jars or sugar blocks, or as honey supers.

Frames and Foundation: I bought 12.75 in deep frames from Weller Bee Supply, which makes them custom upon request. For the foundation, we cut regular deep foundation (table saw, plywood blade) so that 2 sheets fit sideways in a Dadant deep frame.

Base: I use a slatted rack at the bottom, which prevents cold air from swirling up into the brood chamber. In Summer, it provides extra space for the bees to hang outside of the brood chamber in hot and humid weather. I can tell you it doesn't prevent swarming.
The base is a traditional screened bottom board. I never remove the board unless I am checking the debris... I have a hunch the airflow that penetrates up into the brood chamber will be unattractive to the queen, and she won't lay as fully towards the bottom of the frame.

And I keep the entrance permanently at about 4 inches wide, full height though.

Divider: Your choice on how fancy. Because the cavity of undrawn frames is pretty big, the bees benefit from having a divider in place when they have a small population when starting the hive. You can use 1/8 plywood, cut to the same dimensions as a frame, and sandwich two pieces to make an erstwhile frame. Or you can get foam insulation, again cut to the same size as a frame, and wrapped in aluminum foil so the bees don't eat it.

Starting a Dadant Deep

See the first year page for more about managing a new hive. Much is the same no matter the kind of hive.

There is one unique technique I use for the Dadant deep when growing the hive. When I start a hive, I put a divider as a "false wall" to minimize the space available to the bees. I put an undrawn frame between the divider and the current frames. Then I feed the dickens out of the hive, a quart a day (or more realistically, 4 quarts twice a week), always 2:1 sugar syrup (see here for more about why 2:1).

Nuc special instructions: You'll have 5 drawn Langstroth deep frames, which are 9" or so tall. You'll want them to draw out Dadant frames (12.75" tall), and to stop laying brood in the Langstroth deep frames. Here is how...
• Place 1 empty Dadant deep frame against one side, then the 5 Langstroth Deep frames from the nuc, then 1 more Dadant deep frame. Next will be the divider. You can put other Dadant deep frames past the divider - the bees will not be very interested in them until they have enough population to completely cover what they have now. Feed like you mean it - a quart a day, or 2 gallons a week.
• Once the bees have made good progrees on those 2 Dadant deep frames, place them at positions 1 and 2, and add 3 more Dadant deep frames. There won't be room for the divider - for now. Then feed some more....
• Once 2 of the Dadant deep frames have capped brood, and all 5 are more than half drawn out, maybe by week 6, it's time to get the Langstroth deep frames to a place where the brood can emerge (we don't want to waste those bees!), but the queen can't find those frames to lay on them.
• For this, you need a new box: a Langstroth deep. And a queen excluder. And 5 more Langstroth deep frames.

At this point, you have 2 choices.
1. Make a nuc of your own with these 5 frames. You will need a whole separate kit here - base, inner cover, lid. But not right away. First, that Langstroth deep box will need to set it above the Dadant deep until the queen cells are capped. Then you will need to cut out all but 2. Then, you can take that box off, and put it on its own base, with its own inner cover and lid. You'll need to wait 3 weeks for a new queen to emerge, fly out and get mated, and start laying (and what to do if she isn't). You can sell it for $150 even in early July. If you're selling to a new beekeeper, or starting it yourself, use a Langstroth Medium as its top box, or do 2 Langstroth deep boxes but have them be 8 frame. You can just put 4 pieces of foam to replace each of the frames you would take out of the 10 frame equipment. And expect to feed 2 gallons a week until September.
2. Or you can temporarily put another box above the hive, so that the baby bees in those Langstroth frames can emerge, but the queen can't get back up there to lay in the frames. Below I talk about those steps.

First a question to ask yourself: Do you want drone comb?

I actually only use 8 Dadant deep frames, and then the outer frames are Langstroth deep. The bees draw drone comb in the space below the Langstroth deep frames. I think drones are good for a colony to have - because I only keep queens who are gentle, and didn't swarm (when properly managed). If you want only Dadant deep frames, then continue as below. If you plan to keep 2 Langstroth frames for the Dadant deep, the steps on the next page will be a little different, but these steps won't.

Choosing to Stay with 1 hive: Getting the Brood Out of the Langstroth Deep frames.
• You'll need an assembled and painted Langstroth Deep box, 5 more Langstroth Deep frames with foundation, a queen excluder, and ideally a queen-marking tube or queen-catching clip.
• Remove a Langstroth deep frame, looking for the queen. IF YOU FIND THE QUEEN: Ideally, use a queen-marking tube or the clip to hold her until you have moved all the frames. If that's not possible, then hold the Langstroth Deep frame over a gap in the Dadant frames. Soon, maybe 2 min or so, the queen will make her way towards the dark.
• IF YOU DON't SEE THE QUEEN: shake the frame sharply but ONCE into the Dadant Deep, then look again for the queen. Shake ONCE more, look again - then place this frame at position 3 in the Langstroth Deep box. Do this for every Langstroth frame. Then fill in positions 1, 2, 8, 9, 10 with new Langstroth Deep frames. If you don't do that, sadly the bees can draw comb from the inner cover where the empty space would be, and it's a mess.
• Place the queen excluder on the Dadant deep, then the Langstroth deep above that. Now SLOW DOWN feeding, to 1-2 quarts/week. We don't want much comb drawing now, since we've added frames we don't want drawn, but we still want brood to be well fed.
• In 5 days, queen cells must be removed from the Langstroth frames. The top box will have 10-20 queen cells started on various frames. You will need to shake each frame into the hive, then use the hive tool to cut each queen cell out. It sounds awful, but once you realize the bees are confused and flying around, not enraged and flying around after you shake a frame with bees, it's easier.
• In about 2 weeks, all the brood will have emerged from the Langstroth deep frames. There will still be nectar, maybe honey, in the frames though. I freeze those frames for an emergency, or a swarm. This kills eggs from small hive beetles or gypsy moths, both of which can destroy comb.
• You can keep the Langstroth deep frame for a swarm trap. Now ramp up the feeding, and then go on to the next step.

See the Dadant Management page for what next!